Tag: Menzies

I decided to take a break from my Mays family this weekend. I love them, but they’re migraines waiting to happen. Researching the Mays family gives me the same feeling I get after I’ve taken a dose of Benadryl. Like I’ve got a head full of fog.

When I got started, I just typed in Helen Menzies at FamilySearch. She’s one I have information on but I still wasn’t able to find her after she left the family house between the 1841 and 1851 England censuses. I know from William Menzies letter that Helen/Ellen was married to a man named Charles, who traveled, and she had more than one son.

I found this record on FamilySearch and it matches beautifully!

What I like about this record:

1. I like that it shows the use of the name Ellen. Helen seems to have gone by that name on a day to day basis in her adult years.
2. I like the husband’s name of Charles. For some reason the Scott also sounds familiar but none of my records show anything for that so I’m not going to put stock in that one.
3. Liverpool, England as the place of marriage. The Menzies family spent a lot of years in Liverpool. It makes perfect sense that Helen would have been married there.
4. Father listed as John Menzies. Helen’s father is John Menzies! It would be more extraordinary if John had a more unique name but I like that John matches.
5. Birth year of 1833. I have Helen’s birth year to be around 1832 because of her entry in the 1841 England census.

What I don’t like about this record:

1. I don’t like that the mother isn’t listed. I indexed British marriage records for FamilySearch though, so I know that they don’t show the mother on the record. What they do show is Father and father’s occupation. If I look at the microfilm and find Sawyer listed as John’s occupation, I’ll be 100% convinced.
2. I don’t like the date of 1853. Helen isn’t living with her parents in the 1851 census, so where was she?

The next obvious step was to look at the 1861 census which would have been the first after Helen and Charles’ wedding.

What I like about this record:

1. Helen’s birth year and birthplace. I have a Christening record for Helen in Morton by Thornhill, Dumfries, Scotland. So this fits perfectly.
2. Jane as the name of the oldest daughter. As per the Scottish naming patterns I posted about previously, this fits perfectly. Helen’s mother’s name was Jane Ferris-Menzies.
3. James as the name of the oldest son. If you look at the marriage record above. James Scott is listed as Charles’ father. This also fits in with the naming pattern.
4. John as the name of the second son. Again, the naming pattern fits. John was Helen’s father.
5. Believe it or not, I like that Charles isn’t listed on this census. I know that sounds weird but from William’s letter, I got the impression that Charles was away from home for business a lot. In 1863 he was away from home when one of his sons passed away. So his absence fits in with what I know about the family. It would also make sense if the 29 year old John Scott is Charles’ brother and is living with the family while Charles is gone.
6. Living in a suburb of Liverpool. Again in William’s letter, he mentions that Helen lives in Liverpool and he wants to visit her or have her come to him.

What I don’t like about this record:

1. There isn’t anything I don’t like about this record. It’s all very helpful!

Another thing about this census record, it shows that Helen’s 2 older children were born in Liverpool and her youngest in Scotland. The 29 year old John Scott is also listed as being born in Scotland. If he is really Charles’ family, then this would make sense on why they followed the Scottish naming patterns so closely.

The last time I posted about the Menzies family, I didn’t know anything about the members of the family who stayed in England. Only a few snippets I had from some letters between siblings, William and Jane. Using clues from those letters and a marriage record from the FamilySearch records, I think I’m getting somewhere with mapping out William’s life.

On FamilySearch I found a Liverpool marriage record between a William Menzies and Ellen Patterson. At first I was thinking it wasn’t much help, because how could I be sure it’s my guy. Then I remembered the Love-Menzies Family Outline. It has a bunch of Menzies information written at the bottom. At the bottom were a bunch of Walkers and Pattersons. Sure if the wife married in, the Patterson name would be lost. It’s a little too coincidental for me though! I haven’t marked anything down yet, but I’ve made note of the marriage record. My next step was to search the 1861 England Census to see if I could find my William with a wife named Ellen.

Here’s the entry I found in the 1861 census. These are the things I like about it.

• The age is close and the birthplace is a match.
• William’s occupation is Mechanical Dentist. Since his sibling was a druggist, I don’t think a dentist is a far stretch for his occupation. Still shaky, but not a big red flag.
• The children’s names and ages. Both Ellen and William are family names (even matches the maybe wife).
• This family is living in Derby, England. William’s Letter seems to be postmarked as being written in Derby.

Here is what I don’t like about it:

• The wife is missing from this census. William is listed as being married. So his wife could be away from home, or maybe she passed away. I’m unsure. The reason I don’t like this is that in William’s Letter, he gives his wife’s love to his family. The letter is dated 1863. So while it’s not out of the realm of possibility, it doesn’t exactly help prove anything either. So this really does nothing for the FamilySearch record or the census record. I’m still left with no real evidence about William.
• Overall, this is just vague enough to keep me from adding it to my records. I’ve saved the image and made note of this family in my OneNote Notebook to come back to later.
• The family disappears in 1871. I can’t seem to find them anywhere in 1871. Does this mean William finally made it to America like he hoped? Or maybe he moved somewhere else. Could he have moved to London and that’s where this family comes into play?

Here is a fun fact that has nothing to do with proving anything:

• When I’m searching in these British towns, I always do a quick Google Maps search of the area to see if the surname comes up anywhere. I figure it’s worth a shot and fun to boot. In Thornhill, I did find a Menzies listed as living there still. In Derby, all I found were the Menzies Hotels chain. I tried to find more about the chain but I didn’t see anything about how and when the business was established.

So this is where I’m at with the Menzies clan right now. I’m holding off on doing any heavy duty research until I’ve finished adding everything back into my good family file. Once I’ve done that I’ll probably order some of the microfilms from the Family History Center to get a little clarification on some of the Menzies children.